Ep 044 – Learning & Growing: Melissa Blake on Landscape Education and Client Relationships

Melissa Blake [00:00:00] The Roots of Success podcast is for the landscape professional who's looking to up their game. We're not talking lawns or grass here. We're talking about people, process, and profits. The things deep within the business that need focus to scale a successful company from hiring the right people and managing your team to improving your operations and mastering your finances. We've got a brain trust of experts to help you nurture the roots of a successful business and grow to the next level. This is The Roots of Success. Tommy Cole: Welcome to Roots of Success Podcast, and I'm your host, Tommy Cole. Once again, we have an awesome guest that has been begging, begging to be on this show. She might be a little nervous, but I am so thrilled for this young lady. She is a peer group member and has been for years and one of the most amazing peer group members and her team that I've ever seen Graciously and aggressively taking notes at every single meeting absorbing so much content. I love that Her name is melissa blake From Bates Landscaping in one of our, it's my second home's Philly [00:01:00] go Phillies. We, we go there at least multiple times a year with Bates Landscaping. How are you, Melissa? Melissa Blake: I am good Tommy. I told you I was gonna be like Ricky, Bobby and Talladega Knight during this whole thing. Like I don't know where to put my hands. Tommy Cole: I don't want to get my hands. Well, if you're like me, you just kind of wave them all over the place. Like you're kind of crazy. Right. You just don't care of anyways. That's kind of it's a whole nother deal, right? Yeah, it's the awkwardness, but I do speak with my hands as most people can't see that unless you're in person. But Melissa, this is such an honor. I've I've seen you guys for many years. You and your team has just been fascinating to watch and seeing grow and develop. It's been great. So that leads, that leads it to how in the world did you get in this industry? You know, landscaping and all that. And there's one little thing that I learned about you a little while back. Melissa's Background Tommy Cole: You grew up in a concrete jungle and had no green space. [00:02:00] So you're like, I've got to go to the parks and you know, and enjoy the green and the nature and the birds and you name it. I was like, oh my God, you're destined to be a landscape designer salesperson. So tell me more about that. Melissa Blake: Well, it's funny that you say that because I was going to say, but I'm glad that you remembered. I yeah, so growing up, I mean, I grew up right outside of Philadelphia in an area called Delco. So if you remember the presentation, we talked about Delco. But it was a row home area. I had an alley and a porch and that was it. So all concrete never, like. Had any thought of any green space. My mom didn't like, do anything like that. But I went, you know, I've been working my whole life. I had a paper route like you did and I worked at a grocery store. So I've always been working. And when I went into high school, I still didn't know what I wanted to do. And so in high school, they had me choose an elective there. And I ended up choosing horticulture as one of my electives. We had this super cool greenhouse off of my high school and I graduated [00:03:00] with like 850 people in my graduating class. So like they had all sorts of cool stuff, but I picked horticulture. They had this greenhouse and hydroponics and I had this really great teacher and he was like, the industry is so cool, Melissa, you, you would love it. So I ended up. Applying to a couple of different universities. I ended up at Penn state, which they have an amazing program Tommy Cole: they do. They're very regarded as a great program there. Melissa Blake: And I loved it. And during school I took a tree climbing class and my professor there was like, did you know you can like make money at climbing trees? I was like, no, I had no idea. You know? So I ended up getting recruited at a college and worked at a national tree company for three or four years. Just as like a climbing arborist. And plant health care technician and I that like experience for me was invaluable. So I love that. But, you know, in that time that I was there, I, like, really wanted to use my degree. And so I was doing some freelancing stuff here and [00:04:00] there, and when I was interviewing there as, like, for, like, the arborist position, I was like, no, I don't want to just sell tree work my whole life. I wanted to, like, utilize my degree. So, I ended up at Bates 10 years ago, and at that time, we were just a small, you know, company, I mean, we're still a small company now, but a small company, and mowing grass, and doing maintenance, like, for residential customers, and I brought in all my knowledge of plant health care, and my design knowledge, and all of this stuff, and careful You know, here we are, you know, 10 years later. And so yeah, so that's how I got here. Tommy Cole: Concrete jungle. To climbing trees, like your family's probably like, what is this crazy lady doing? I Melissa Blake: Oh my God. My mom hated it. She like hated it. She was like, Melissa, please, please be careful today. I'm like, yeah, mom, just going in a tulip poplar. No big deal. Tommy Cole: Yeah. I'm just like kind of a monkey, just jumping around all over the place and trimming limbs and getting, getting, [00:05:00] you know, dirty and all that. But that's how we learn is literally just to get outside and learn. I mean, that's how I got in the industry. It was like, I like golf and I like the outdoors. Like, just get me outside to do something like that. That's what I was. Kind of was headed towards the architecture route. It was like, that kind of sounds boring. No, no harm. Anyone don't, don't shoot me now, but landscape architecture just seemed like the fit, whether it be horticulture or outdoor design hardscaping landscape architecture, design world was just, you know, So unique. And to this day, when you say, yeah, I'm in the landscape, they're like, Oh my gosh, you know, I've got this or this, right? Melissa Blake: yeah, Tommy Cole: That's great. Mellisa's Role at Bates Landscaping Tommy Cole: So talk about your role at Bates, right? So you're, you've been there 10 years. I'm sure it's evolved into every single thing you can imagine, but you've really narrowed it down into your niche. And basically you're kind of the design sales person for all of Bates. What is that like [00:06:00] for you guys at the team? Melissa Blake: Yeah. So I had the sales and design department for, like, the residential design install portion. So anytime customer wants a new outdoor living space, kitchen, fire pit, patio, walkway, whatever the case may be, I get involved with that whole process there. And then I also help with a lot of the. Business development on the commercial side and residential side. Like, if we're looking for a new engineer to partner with for stormwater management, because that's big where we are, then I also help with that too. So, but obviously, landscape design is my ultimate passion, so I love it. Tommy Cole: Yeah, that's great. It's something so fascinating to me, is taking someone's vision, put it in sort of a design, whether it be, you know, 2d, 3d, and then put it in the ground and then to see the transformation is basically like. [00:07:00] A kid in a candy store. I mean, I'm sure you get giddy and excited to see the full circle and then go, Oh my God, that's what we designed. Like that's, that's amazing to see the smile on clients faces. Melissa Blake: Oh yeah. I mean, I was working on, I had a call this morning with a customer that's getting a pool installed that we're a part of and they need us to help with our outdoor kitchen. And I was just like walking them through something simple, like light fixtures that people like, I get all excited about. I'm like, Oh, do you know I could do these cool color changing lights for you? Like how fun would it be when the Eagles are playing? You could turn them green, you know? So like stuff like that, you know, you get jazzed up because If you're excited about the process with the customer, then they're going to be so excited, too, you know, so you want to show that passion to them, which is like probably my favorite part. Tommy Cole: Yeah. You have unbelievably passion. It shows. When you're around and it's kind of contagious because the client gets a little really excited. So talk about this little thing called charging for design. I'm [00:08:00] sure you didn't in the past because you probably found every reason why not to charge for your time. When to charge for time Tommy Cole: And then talk about that and then why you transitioned to charge for design. Thank you, Melissa, for taking that opportunity to To do that because we are valuable in our industry and we should be charging for our time. So take me through that whole process with you and your team. Melissa Blake: Yeah, so that was something, you know, like, fresh out of school and right, you know, we're we were small business. So any opportunity that somebody wanted to give us to, like. install a walkway for them, do new plantings, you know, whatever the case may be. We, we jumped all over it and I would start right away. And that was, you know, like 10 years ago, although like the technology was there, we were too small to obviously afford any sort of like software program. Right. And so I would do everything by hand. And so that meant I would go to their house, I would show them the designs. And if they wanted me to move that Azalea from the left side foundation to the right [00:09:00] side foundation. That meant I had to make a whole different design for them. I couldn't just like move it and, you know, paste and, you know, cut like you can on, yeah, the computer and stuff. But so I was doing that and I, I think we were just so gung ho about doing designs for customers that we didn't even think like, oh, they're gonna, they're gonna take this design and, you know, they're either gonna hold off or they're just gonna give it to somebody else or whatever the case may be. I mean. We were going as far as like, I would take people to the nursery and pick out plants with them. I would go to like the supplier and I would be like, here's this great techo block paper. Like, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? And not charging for any of it. And then we ran into so many times where they would just take my design and either not do it and just hold on to it. Or they would have their, you know, Local guy that cuts their grass do it and we just, like, lost so much time and over the years, you know, we've obviously learned that our [00:10:00] time is super valuable, especially as we bring on other landscape designers and other team members on to the team here at dates that. We have to charge for that time because if we're expecting the salesperson or the designer to, you know, hit a certain number of sales, have these certain KPIs, we can't not be charging for their time. Otherwise it's just wasted. And our team's time is too valuable for that. Tommy Cole: right. You know, it's, it's no different than any other industry, right? Lawyers, doctors, electricians, plumbers, you name it, across the board, time is being charged. And then when they, when you do charges, the client is highly invested at that point. You know, they, they bought into you, they bought into the design. You know, you could think at some point they could walk away 100 percent but your time was paid for. That's the most important thing because you've been through all the horticulture classes and landscape classes, design classes [00:11:00] that cost money. You've been climbing trees, designing, you name it across the board, all of those experiences and extra classes and things. Have cost money and time now it's time to charge for it. Melissa Blake: Yeah, exactly. And we don't really look at it as like, Hey, you know, we're going to charge this rate for you and you're going to pay it. We usually, we, we charge it as like a design deposit towards the customer's project. So, like, they, it goes towards their project. It just shows their commitment to us. You know, they've approved this contract. They've given us this deposit. Like you intend on working with us. Like we feel good about that. It's a deposit. And then they know in the back of their mind, like, Hey, this is going towards my project at the end of the day. So it's a win win for both sides. Right. Tommy Cole: Yeah. Love it. Love it The importance of having an Ideal Client Profile Tommy Cole: Let's talk about something else this thing called icp and we talk about it a lot you know, it's evolved over the few years. I'm sure before ace program You probably didn't have it really defined [00:12:00] and over time. We've really honed in on that's called your ideal customer profile Explain how it was previously at baits You And then we started to realize that we need to hone in on that craft. A little scary to identify that because you probably have some people that are not your ideal customer. And what do we do with those? And then you transition. Then now it's much smoother. Can you talk about that? Melissa Blake: Yeah. So, and it's through peer groups that we've. You know, gotten a lot of this great information and then also like the, the books that we read in peer group to like the pumpkin plant, that was like another, like, send it home kind of factor for us. But, you know, the ideal customer profile, you know, 2 years ago, we. We would basically just take whatever. Oh, yeah, you're calling in. You want us to bid off this rfp? Oh, oh you have the specs from this other local landscaper, you know, of course we'll bid on it, right? And it just got to a point where we didn't really Have any say in what [00:13:00] exactly we were bidding because you're talking to a bunch of different customers, right? You know your facilities manager at an industrial complex is a totally different customer than your property manager that is dealing with homeowners associations, right? And so, you know, in order to like figure out what their values are for both of those places, you have to understand like what's a good fit for you and for your company. So identifying your ideal customer, where do they look like? Where do they go? You know, What kind of values do they have and are they going to place on landscaping is super important. Tommy Cole: Yeah. You know, that is, we used to say yes to all, right? Because we were young and we're aggressive and we just want to, I think we get in this industry also because we want to help people, right? You know, there's, there's some sort of a pain point. that our clients are facing at some, at some point within their sort of landscape. It's a frustration or something doesn't work or, or whatever. Yes. Isn't always the answer now. [00:14:00] So you've really identified that. And when you identify that, that idle customer, you know, usually it's sort of a age group, it's a type of, you know, where they live or where they dine. And, you know, how do they buy? It's different between a property manager of an HOA versus a residential client. And you know, but you can set the expectations, you know, you know, how they buy, what are their values, all that. And then you really understand like what you need to provide to your client. And then you're really hitting them. With that expectation, you know, it's really clear at the end of the day. Melissa Blake: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's important to know where their values lie because do their values line up with yours of your company, right? So like if they're very technology driven, if they're a technology driven customer and you like to do things old school, you like to hand deliver things, you like to stop by the property all the time and, you know, shake their hand in person, You know, then those values don't really line up [00:15:00] together, right? So like being able to make sure that you understand the two different types of customers and, or the several different types of customers. And, you know, does that fit with your company too? Tommy Cole: Yeah. How to approach new clients Tommy Cole: So let's talk about this. You, you've, you've run into lots of clients and throughout the years, as you approach a new client to sell something, what is your approach? Like, how do you handle that? Is there a series of questions that you always ask or is there, is there homework prior to your arrival? So you have an expectation, like talk about to our audience, like what, how you've been successful in this part of the world. Melissa Blake: Oh, my gosh, all of those things, all of those things. Well, you know, I like to go prepared to places, you know, like, I like to, like, try and know as much as I can before I go there because, you know, it's important to be able to try and identify with a customer. You have to, you know, know it, know where their values are. I don't want to keep going back to values, but that's a huge thing. You know, so you want to do your research ahead of time and know the customer that you're approaching, whether it's [00:16:00] a. Senior living site, or if it's an industrial place, or if it's a shopping center, you want to know exactly who you're targeting and what type of customer they are so that you can tailor your message. And then besides, you know, being prepared, then in you had him on the podcast and I really liked him. Mike Weinberg, he talks a lot about, yeah, in his book, the presentation versus the interview, and that couldn't be more true. That portion of Tommy Cole: Explain that real quick. Selling through an interview rather than a presentation Tommy Cole: If you're new to this audience or didn't hear that, that episode, explain what that is. Melissa Blake: oh my gosh. Well, hopefully, like, he wouldn't be upset with me, like, trying to, you know, Remember exactly what he said, but it's basically that you never want to go into a meeting with a customer and have a presentation. Oh, Bates does this, Bates does that. This is all about us. Here's the services that we can provide for you. Like all of that. Because it's just falling on deaf ears. What does the customer want? That's what you have to find out. You [00:17:00] have to find out, hey, What is it that you like about your current landscaper? You know, if there was three things that you could change about them or their snow removal process or their communication skills, like what are those three things? Like if you had a crystal ball, like where did, what is your ideal landscaper look like? You know, do they communicate often with you? Do you never have to talk to them? Do they come by the property once a week? Like what? And then that way in asking those questions and conducting that meeting, conducting that interview process that he talks about. You really get to know the customer, and then you can tailor what it is that you can provide to them. Because it is, at the end of the day, you're helping them, like you said, Tommy. You're helping them with trying to figure out, how do I solve your problem? If I'm not, if I'm not here to help you solve a problem, then what the heck am I here for? You can just have your current guy do it. Like, you don't need me if I'm not gonna solve a problem for you. Tommy Cole: Oh my gosh. Music to my ears. That is [00:18:00] literally had discussion this week. While I was traveling, it's just. We just want to throw all of our stuff that we do in the client space, right? We do everything, bed cleanup, and flowers, and mowing, and we can do, and we're not even really getting to know the person. Like, you can throw all your papers and, and, and all your biography out the window and go, just have a conversation. with this person and ask them questions to get to know them, right? Whether it's inside their home to see what their home looks like, whether it's walking out on an HOA property and diagnosing and how he or she, you know, sees things through their lens and the pain points. But the number one thing is when they call Bates, it's we have a problem, right? And Bates needs to solve the problem. And once Bates solves the problem, let's move on to the next thing, right? The next sort of things that we want to accomplish. Melissa Blake: Yeah. And the [00:19:00] same thing goes for like, like, I know I keep referring back to like the commercial stuff, but that it's just because we've been, I've been in bid season for so long now. So that's what I've been working on. But the residential side of things, it's all about how are you going to use the space? Like I always, when I'm talking to customers, I'm like, okay, so how many kids do you have? You know, how often are you guys outside? Do you mostly use the, the, the patio in the fall, in the winter, you know, in the summertime, when are you out here? Do any of your kids play sports? Do you guys like soccer? How many people do you usually have here? Like, are these kids going to be jumping off of this, like new water feature that we built into the pool? Like, how are you using this space so that I can tailor exactly what I'm going to do around that? Because if you don't have, if you don't have those questions like answered, how, how are you going to be able to build them? Their ideal space without asking them, right? Tommy Cole: Yeah, getting to know the client is probably the biggest goal. And at the end of the day, you [00:20:00] have a You have a summary of that person or that client or that property, and then you, then you really go in and attack mode to, to, to, to say, this is how we can help you, right? And maybe it's just a drainage issue where they're standing water on half the backyard. Great. Let's fix the drainage issue. And then we can move on to something else at that time. But right now we've got to solve this problem that you initially called us for. I love it. Just, just, just, it's great. the Sales process Tommy Cole: Talk about do you have like a sales process or something that you follow? You know, what, what is? Say you meet with a client, like what's the next step after that? And is there a timeline or is there, is there documents or things that you need to get back to them? Talk about that a little bit. Melissa Blake: Yeah. So, for the residential, like, design build process, if we have a referral, say, from an existing customer that we just recently did a project for, I'll get on the phone with them and, you know, talk to them initially about it. It's always our 1st step is always a phone call because. A we want to make sure we're not wasting their time [00:21:00] because hopefully it's something that we can help with right? So we'll talk to them on the phone about their project try and gauge exactly what they're looking for Get some like, you know touch points like must haves like must have a swim spa must have Privacy planting must have patio, you know, whatever those must haves are and then kind of shell those out, right? And then after we talk about those we try to talk about budget that way we can talk about financing with them if any of that is is an option for them And then I always try to ask for pictures. So pinterest is always people's bff, right? so like you go on there and like that really really gives you because You can have somebody describe to you what they're looking for. You can, right? You like, But i'm thinking of something totally different like i'm like, oh, yeah. No, I love that I know exactly what you're talking about, but until they send you like photos here. This is what i'm thinking I'm, like, oh, that's so cool That's not at all what I thought, right? And like [00:22:00] that's okay, you know, like it doesn't matter as long as they send me what exactly they're looking for, right? So they send me concepts of like thoughts like hey like this this and this and then what I can do Is once I get out on site and i'm doing measurements and i'm having a talk with them I can point out different features in the pictures that they sent to me and I can say okay So you like this, okay What do you think about this? Do you like this winterberry holly in here? We could get something like that. I heard you love Christmas. Like, this would be great to bring inside for the holidays. You can use this for cuttings, like stuff like that, that maybe they like weren't even thinking about. They just saw the picture and they were like, yeah, I like that. So then there's not really a, like a timeline on things, Tommy, because the design process is very, it's not that it's like intimate, but it is at the same time, because you're really. You're creating a whole outdoor space for the customer, you know, so you don't want to like rush anybody through that in picking materials, in, in coming up with concepts and [00:23:00] stuff like that. So the design phase is typically the longest besides the obvious, like install portion of it. But yeah, we'll have onsite meetings, in person meetings, zoom meetings, you know, just meetings on meetings to just make sure that everything is a hundred percent of what they're looking for. Tommy Cole: They're all dialed in. Yeah. It's, it's great. So you have this phone sort of intake dialogue, the needs, the wants, and you're, you're taking notes and it's a lot of the, Sort of the wishful thinking photos, the Pinterest, the ideas and then you talk about the features that you want in the, in the spaces, but I like, you know, the no timeline because it's intimate, but along the way, most of you're probably communicating that very thoroughly. Okay. Yeah. I'm in this process. Yes, miss Smith. Now I'm doing this and I'm going to show you like sort of some concepts of. Kind of what I'm thinking a little bit, but it's very, very little intimate type [00:24:00] deal and you've got to be in the zone and, and really come, you know, all these ideas of papers in the, in the client's brain, all put together in one space, Melissa Blake: yeah, Tommy Cole: no easy task. Melissa Blake: no. And it's fun. That's what I get. Like, I always tell people, like, this is always my favorite part. Like, you know, Tommy, I love sales. Like you love operations. I love sales. And like that whole design process, it's like a lot. It's like a lot of pulling in of different things. But like the whole end result, like you were like, Seeing everything come to life and seeing everything full circle when the color changing lights are on at night and they're sending me You know pictures text messages. They're watching the eagles game outside and they're like, oh my god, melissa Look at this like we had so much fun on sunday. Like thanks again, like That, you know, tear to my eye, it warms my heart. I love it. Tommy Cole: Yeah. That's great. How Landscape designers can differentiate themselves Tommy Cole: So I got a question. Let's talk about, throw you a curve ball. If someone's doing design work and they're young in their career, what [00:25:00] are some sort of nuggets that a young designer sales person needs to have in order to be successful at their, at their role? I Melissa Blake: say to not get yourself all hyped up that like you went to college and like you have all this experience because being in the field is invaluable. Like don't try to put yourself above. That whole experience because not only is it essential but you don't know everything you don't like i'm still learning like that's why you do the you listen to the podcast and you listen to audiobooks because You need to continue to learn and like that field experience outside of college I mean even if you don't go to college the field experience is really the the place to go and to try and Always work with somebody that's smarter than you, right? Like that. I think, you know, you never want to be like, oh, I know everything that's, that would be like the biggest downfall. I would [00:26:00] say is, you know, always working with somebody that's smarter than you that can teach you things and always be willing to learn, spend that time in the field. Throw, you know, dig those holes, you know, make those patios, right? So, like, all of those things are super essential and don't get discouraged if you don't get a job right when you want to, like, as, like, an entry level landscape designer, like, don't be discouraged. Like, everybody has to start somewhere. And the field is a great place to start in. And then even if you can do an internship or shadow under somebody or be somebody's assistant, like you'll get there, but it just might take a little longer and that's totally okay. Right. Tommy Cole: it. A hundred percent agree with you, Melissa. I think that everything you say, I. Understand and we're like so much in common because me having a landscape architecture degree, I didn't, I kind of did that, but I kind of didn't, I went to the field and I had two internships [00:27:00] in the world, you know, college probably wasn't great for me. You know, I'm not the guy that sits there. I kind of. a little bit. I'm the BC student, you know, but, I didn't really care. I got the piece of paper and I got out, but where I really learned the most was an internship two summers in a row. And then I did odd jobs, pouring concrete, laying asphalt, mowing grass, like all those things. And then when I got out of college, it was. Design and real world installations. And I'll never forget going out on my first job site, the older man, probably 60, goes, I don't care who you are and what degree you got, you don't know shit. That's it. I'm like, yeah, you're right. I really don't know much other than how to draw bubble diagrams in a fantasy world of design with no budgets and no timelines. Melissa Blake: Exactly. Tommy Cole: You're so right. You're so right. And so the thing is, get your butt in a company where you just go on a crew, go in the field, climb [00:28:00] trees for crying out loud. You've done, you've done an internship. I know with the Valleycrest group years ago, right? You probably learned how to do all that stuff. Get your hands involved in everything. And then you can start to dial back into something specific within that company. Melissa Blake: Oh my gosh. Well, you would laugh. I, when I was interviewing at the tree company before I got hired there, please don't make fun of me. And I know I'm telling everybody this story, but I was being interviewed there. And I, like at that time, I was fresh out of school and like you, like college, wasn't really like, I always liked school, but like, it goes one in year and out the other, like I'm like a hands on person. Like I need to see everything and. Like learning plants, like in school, it just didn't really, it just didn't really get to me like that. So I was interviewing there at the tree company and he's walking me around. And he's asking me questions. And of course I was great with all that, you know, but then he goes, Melissa, what what kind of tree is that right there? And he points at this tree. And to this day, all the guys that I worked with in the field, they [00:29:00] made fun of me nonstop. He pointed to this tree, Tommy, guess what kind of tree it was. Tommy Cole: Live Oak. Melissa Blake: No, it was a white pine and I had no idea what it was. I was like, I have no idea. And that's like, that's how bad it was. And that's why, that's where like my, that's why I say that is because like, I thought that I knew, like you said, like no budgets, no concept of anything, like when you're in school and then you get out in the real world and like, that's why you have to earn your chops. You gotta be in the field to get that experience. You just have to. Tommy Cole: I love it's the best thing ever is learn the field because you have a better understanding how to design and I think that's why not to toot my own horn while successful in the install side is because I had years of experience on the design, kind of the architecture of the landscape, working with landscape architects, drawing, designing, And then putting that into an install side, I can, well, as I'm installing, I can work with architects very, very well because I can take their vision and put it in the ground.[00:30:00] Just get out there in the field and learn it. It is a whole new game, jump in and encourage it. Melissa Blake: Yep. Tommy Cole: All right. I got something that's really, really awesome. Melissa's teaching landscaping as a trade Tommy Cole: I, I'm looking at this two screens. But you're like a teacher, professor, person in the trades industry, the College of Trades. And I think this is the most amazing story right now. You're currently a teacher in this because I strongly believe Trades is where it's at. This is where we really catapult the landscape industry. Is not everyone realizing that landscaping is a career and you can go do this. Tell me about your involvement and what it means to you. Yeah, Melissa Blake: everybody I'm an adjunct professor, professor, but, you know, Professor Blake, but that's not actually true. I just said, you know, I, I teach a course in the introduction to landscape design. Which I love. So it's at a local [00:31:00] trade college and it's for all boys and I, I do that and they actually they actually just asked me if I would teach another course, like kind of like a hands on, like real life customer and how all of that works. But I love it. I mean, I feel like, like you're totally right. Like plumbing electric, you know, electricians, HVAC, landscaping, like all of those trades, they're so important. Like, people take them for granted. And like, anytime that I can try and get the students all excited about landscaping, I'm like, Oh, my God, like, You have such, you have such a career ahead of you. You don't even know like this stuff that you find passion in, you know, it's going to do wonders for you. And so, yeah, so I do the introduction to landscape design. We do a lot of like in person field trips. We go to parks, we go to different sites and look at projects. And we kind of talk about why this function works, why that function works, why we would put a retaining wall there, because it's a [00:32:00] really hands on. College there. So they like to see everything in the real world. So yeah, I, I love it. I love that as like a way of being able to kind of give back and, and motivate the next generation of, of landscapers, hopefully, Tommy Cole: it's a funny story. So I, after I graduated college a few years down the road, I got invited to go back and speak. To the the college I graduated out of in the program. I went to, let's just say I didn't really get invited back again because I kind of told him how I really felt about the college experience. It was fine. It was cool. But I said, you're really going to get your experience. And internships and working jobs. And then you really get a download of really what this industry is all about. I wish they did more of that in school. So my recommendation, if you don't take the call drop, get into the trades program for crying out loud is the best thing ever learn, learn, learn internships, small jobs, [00:33:00] side jobs in this industry. This is my favorite industry ever because we meet people like you and companies like you. And we're super passionate about putting really awesome landscapes in the ground, maintaining beautiful landscapes, doing great for the environment. We get to have fun. We get to make money. Oh, and by the way, I learned a new stat. More millionaires are produced in the landscape industry than other, any other trades. So I'm telling you, I'm telling you, like, get involved. This is great. Melissa, let's lastly, let's let's, any sort of words of wisdom to our audience always leave this sort of open ended question towards the end. Never stop learning Tommy Cole: What's the words of wisdom for anyone out there in this industry that, you know, it's, Just put in the hard work and, you know, what, what do you live and die by? Melissa Blake: So I would say that you should never stop learning. I mean, I think that, I know we talked about that, but I think [00:34:00] that over the past years that, that we've been kind of either working together and I've been working here. It's, it's one of those things where you gotta continue to read. You have to like look at people's LinkedIn posts. You know, people put cool stuff up on LinkedIn all the time. Listen to the audiobooks and podcasts and continue to kind of educate yourself so that Not only are you making it a better experience for the customer that you're helping, but you're also, you know, just do it. You're just doing better for yourself. I mean, if you'd stop learning, then you're just, you're just stagnant. So I think learning is probably the most important thing and 10 seminars, go to NALP events, you know, go and explore other places, go on trips where you can like visit other gardens and see what other companies are doing, stuff like that. Like the learning part, I think is the biggest thing. Yeah. Tommy Cole: agree with you. There's a statistic that says the average 21 year old dies. And the reason why they die is because they stopped [00:35:00] learning. Remember as a kid, we're always intrigued by things and doing things and failures. and trying new stuff and failing again. And then we get to this age where like, eh, I think I'm fine. No, like use all sides of your brain, really dive into this stuff. I'm a fan of just. I don't listen to the radio much. Put on a good podcast that either motivates you or you get one or two nuggets along the way on a long walk to get your morning started off right, attend certain things and conferences and learn. Heck, I would say go get in a landscape truck and go do installations for a day and just learn what the crews do. Just put yourself in your shoes, right? Just jump in a truck and go and learn that. You will be amazed what you can learn these days. All this information is so accessible to, at our fingertips, you know, it's, it's fascinating. That's the power of the peer group too, where we read books and you guys [00:36:00] are fan of the books and the audio books. I mean, every one of you're just like more, give me more, give me more. It's been great. Melissa Blake: And that, that thing that you just said about the nuggets, like you're not gonna, like, I never expect when we go to like visit other companies or when I go to a conference or something, like I never think like, Oh my God, this is going to change my whole life. Right. Like, you don't look at it like that. You have to look at it. Like if I get two things, two little nuggets to, you know, that are going to move the needle in the direction that I want to go in, then that is invaluable. And so I, yeah, totally agree. Tommy Cole: Yeah. And stepping out of your comfort zone. I really believe in that. Right. I feel like we get into this. You know our own place And the four walls of our office and our home and we get really comfortable and we get Complacent and and and everything you can't see it And then when you step away for three days molested to some other state No city that you've never been to and someone else's facility You learn a [00:37:00] lot and then you come back whether it be a trade show or nlp and come back and go I am fired up because I got two nuggets and i'm like I got a jolt of energy like you would not believe You Melissa Blake: Oh yeah. Totally. Yes. Just like, just going on the visits, you like you see something and you're like, duh, duh. Why? I, I knew that. But like it takes some time, somebody else to say it to you and you're like, I should have, I should have just thought of that the whole time. You're right. Tommy Cole: Well done. Well done that. Well, Melissa, it's been a pleasure having you. I've had you on my list for a while. You didn't know it, but one of my most favorite peer group members is Melissa and her entire team because I will never forget meeting you guys and bring you guys down to Corpus Christi and they were taking notes and I swear they filled up half a notebook full of notes. And I was like, Oh my God, these people love to learn. They're intense about their industry and they want to do good. And I was like, I love these people. So Melissa Blake: my gosh. You would love it. I brought this just in case I needed to write down a [00:38:00] note. I figured like maybe he'll say something and I'll need to write it down. So Tommy Cole: Yeah, I love it. You're so awesome. Give my best to the entire Bates team. Justin and Dylan can't, can't give them enough credit as well. They are awesome people and we'll see you guys soon, but it's been a pleasure and thank you for for being on the show, Melissa Blake: Yeah. Thanks Tommy. I appreciate it. Tommy Cole: my cursor. Here we go. John: Ready to take the next step? Download our free Profitability Scorecard to quickly create your own baseline financial assessment and uncover the fastest ways to improve your business. Just go to McFarlinStanford.com/scorecard to get yours today To learn more about McFarlin Stanford our best in class peer groups and other services go to our website at McFarlinStanford.com And don't forget to follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. See you next time on the Roots of Success.